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Old 04-10-2008, 03:08 PM   #76
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Quote:
but I don't perceive how the iconic point was in anyway a comparison
I think we're talking at cross-purposes here - my original statement about the 30 years thing had nothing to do with icons. It had to do with "fan longevity", I guess you'd call it, and was more or less tongue-in-cheek.

Nor did I ever say that your comments vis a vis sexism, etc, were "off topic". I was addressing the overall "flavor" of the discussion at that point in time. (I usually try to use quotes if I'm going to address an individual post.) I do think we (all) need to reference the article more, mainly so people know where to look to see what someone is talking about. And again, I'm making a generalized statement there, simply because Dirk's statements have already been taken out of context all over the place.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:21 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostarella View Post
I do think we (all) need to reference the article more, mainly so people know where to look to see what someone is talking about. And again, I'm making a generalized statement there, simply because Dirk's statements have already been taken out of context all over the place.
ostarella, You've hit the nail on the head again.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:32 PM   #78
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1. characterized by fame: relating to or characteristic of somebody or something admired as an icon
I'll agree to disagree, because more or less, yeah that definition, that's exactly what I'm saying I don't think the original BSG has for my generation. Now, if you do think it has that kinda fame for my generation, then at this point again, I'll agreee to disagree on that too ^^;;

Sorry for the bold, but I think y'all kept trying to argue it as iconic for you generation, which was never my point. I'm not at all prepared to speak on behalf of y'all 'cause well *L* I wasn't there!



Quote:
Money is always the motivator in Hollywood - art never is. Lowest common denominator
Only for some. I think the money grubbing nature of the studios blots out that you do actually have some art get though. Cloony's 'Good Luck and Goodnight' was IMHO a good example. So was Capote, and Schindler's List. And many otehrs IMHO.

I also think Aressted Develoment and Starved were good TV show examples of art/concept before money.

I mean I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand, but I don't think she was completely right, nor do I think everything needs to be artistic. *shrugs*

Die hard was sooo lowest common denominator,All of 'em really. So was Transformers, but you know, I'm glad they were made. They were fun times.

Quote:
And again, I'm making a generalized statement there, simply because Dirk's statements have already been taken out of context all over the place
*L* Well point, but to be honest, that was something I wasn't as worried about happening here.
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:57 PM   #79
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Of course even though Dirk said those things, this meeting still took place, in Starbucks.

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Old 04-10-2008, 05:37 PM   #80
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I love that picture so much, it's so adorable.

Speaking of taking LIC out of context, it's a shame Katee took the essay so personally.

'Course also I've seen that she was under the impresison from that meeting that he liked the idea of the new show, so then I guess LIC would be a bit of a shock, but still, ah well between her and him.

It's stillan adorable shot.
I even iconed it:
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:56 PM   #81
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What did Katee say about Dirks article?
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:07 PM   #82
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I PMed her comments.

On second look, way off topic and way inflammatory.

ETA:
You know it occures to me, I hope no one took my thoughts on my opinion that BSG not iconic and that's why as Dirk said, you had to be there, to be thoughts on BSG not being good

I think many many shows are good, but not iconic (even my own 'best show ever made ever for the next million years', Babylon 5 I wouldn't say is iconic for my gen )

My roommte says icons shuld be the Holy Mother Mary btw. *L*
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:48 PM   #83
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Hi all,

I found this site by accident while researching the old show's Starbuck character as played by Dirk Benedict. I was trying to counter someone I know who raves on and on about the "new" bitter feminist version.

I took the liberty of blogging on Dirk's excellent essay which is discussed in this thread and posted on the main site. I'd welcome any commentary.

https://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2...was-meant.html

Thanks!

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Old 04-11-2008, 07:21 AM   #84
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A little irony - on the fun side

https://www.wickedlocal.com/quincy/homepage/x990748269
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:17 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani View Post
ETA:
You know it occures to me, I hope no one took my thoughts on my opinion that BSG not iconic and that's why as Dirk said, you had to be there, to be thoughts on BSG not being good

I think many many shows are good, but not iconic (even my own 'best show ever made ever for the next million years', Babylon 5 I wouldn't say is iconic for my gen )

My roommte says icons shuld be the Holy Mother Mary btw. *L*
Ani, I respect your opinion and I know you respect mine. I like the fact that you really like Battlestar Galactica.
I also like what you said about your roommate saying that icons should be about the Holy Mother.
I also like Babylon 5. I watched the entire series.
I think a better term than being iconic would be famous and having a huge fan base and a huge following. I think we can all agree on that.
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:28 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Lagniappe's guy View Post
Hi all,

I found this site by accident while researching the old show's Starbuck character as played by Dirk Benedict. I was trying to counter someone I know who raves on and on about the "new" bitter feminist version.

I took the liberty of blogging on Dirk's excellent essay which is discussed in this thread and posted on the main site. I'd welcome any commentary.

https://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2...was-meant.html

Thanks!

Lagniappe's Guy
I just read that. Very well said. I really like what was written.
I also commented on the blog.

Some quotes of the article from Dirk Benedict himself.

I'm not sure if a cigar in the mouth of Stardoe resonates in the same
way it did in the mouth of Starbuck. Perhaps. Perhaps it "resonates"
more. Perhaps that's the point. I'm not sure. What I am sure of is
this…

Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars. Hamlet does not scan as
Hamletta. Nor does Han Solo as Han Sally. Faceman is not the same as Facewoman. Nor does a Stardoe a Starbuck make. Men hand out cigars.
Women `hand out' babies. And thus the world, for thousands of years, has gone round.


I 100% agree with Dirk. And what Dirk is saying is not sexist.
Nor does Stardoe a Starbuck make. That's for sure.


And I agree with this statement from the blogger.

Dirk, my hat's off to you. You're on the money politically and philosophically and what's more, you made TV fun to watch and sadly it's rarely like that today.

The one--and only--Galactica's Starbuck.

I 100% agree!
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:37 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani View Post
I think Dirk had more the right of it when he said something like people will forget there ever was a male Starbuck.
I think Dirk was being a bit modest and sarcastic. LOST IN CASTRATION was written to be funny in a dry manner, with a dash of sarcasm, far from "the bitter, old man" mischaracterisations, that have been thrown his way by so many in the GINO camp.

Let's do the math:

*29-65 million weekly veiwers tuned into watch Larson's BSG, starring Dirk as Starbuck.

*Less than 3 million tune in to watch GINO, starring Katee as Stardoe.

That tells you that most people in the country know Starbuck as Dirk.
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:57 AM   #88
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Now if anyone in the US from here had of tuned in to "Live with Regis and Kelly" they would possibly have a new ride and a vacation

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Old 04-12-2008, 03:01 PM   #89
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I'd love to see classic BSG get a makeover with some new effects like Star Trek is. Not that they don't hold up but we all know that because of the shooting schedule so many of the same shots had to be used and used again from episode to episode. I think that might help draw a new crowd in to the old series.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:39 AM   #90
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It IS hugely iconic and IS as iconic as the A-Team. The "real" Battlestar Galactica lives on in comic books, fan fiction, and has a very, very strong fan base. Look at the sales of the complete epic series of the "real" Battlestar Galactica on DVD. They can't replace the "real" Battlestar Galactica. It too is too ingrained in pop culture spanning more than one generation. I should know. I'm a fan of the "real" Battlestar Galactica and for more than 30 years and I'm not the only one!
Like I've said before I'm here because I'm a "real" Battlestar Galactica fan and a "real" Starbuck fan. Starbuck IS Dirk Benedict and always will be.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. On several points.
I'm going to play Devils advocate ( notice my post count?? CREEPY!! ) here for a mo....

First of all, "real" wouldn't be my choice of a word. "Original" I prefer. What is "real" for the first generation of fans, may not necessarily apply to the current generation who enjoy *both* shows. Or just the current one. And there are many.

I have to disagree that the original BG is "iconic". Why? Well let's be honest. It doesn't match the status of shows like "M*A*S*H", "All In The Family", the "Star Wars" franchise of being known all over the world. Yes BG is known, but not on the same scale. I'd consider 1978's BG as more pop culture than iconic. Which isn't to say that for it's time it wasn't popular, because it was, and it has had a lasting impression on a generation of fans who really wanted and felt that it deserved a Tom DeSanto upgrade ( I did and still do ), but it only lasted one season. It was the show of my childhood and brought alot of fun memories and I would love to see the original actors back for a feature film ( a la Star Trek ), but my hopes are waning.

As for Dirk being Starbuck, well...aspects of his Starbuck are based on his own personality, but not all. And truth be told, when they write his obituary I can pretty much guarantee that he'll be credited first and foremost as being "Templeton Peck" of "A-Team" then he will as "Starbuck" of "Battlestar Galactica." That is the character he is MOST remembered for. Although I do think that Dirk would prefer to be remembered not for either but simply for "Dirk Benedict.......Dad".

Dirk's Battlestar was a different time. A different generation of values, ideals. It's no different than the younger generation disagreeing with their parents. Both sets come from different times, experiences, education, etc etc. Dirk gave his perspective, from having lived it and seeing the progression from one generation to the next. And so he should. The younger 20-something generation see it from *their* perspective. And so they should. It's the only perspective they have. It's like trying to make them understand what it was like living in a time they never knew, and will never know.

Judging from all the e-mails I have personally received at this website over the years since the article was released, I can honestly say that most of the older generation got what he said, but not all. Most of the younger generation ( and I must say women in particular ) were the most outraged.

Just different generations, different perspectives.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:23 AM   #91
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Quote:
Tracy wrote:As for Dirk being Starbuck, well...aspects of his Starbuck are based on his own personality, but not all. And truth be told, when they write his obituary I can pretty much guarantee that he'll be credited first and foremost as being "Templeton Peck" of "A-Team" then he will as "Starbuck" of "Battlestar Galactica." That is the character he is MOST remembered for. Although I do think that Dirk would prefer to be remembered not for either but simply for "Dirk Benedict.......Dad".
I respectfully disagree. I think Dirk will be credited with being remembered as "Starbuck" of " Battlestar Galactica" as much as "Templeton Peck" of the "A-Team".
I do agree with you that Dirk would prefer not to be remembered not for either but simply for "Dirk Benedict.......Dad" That's a beautiful sentiment.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:43 AM   #92
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It's like trying to make them understand what it was like living in a time they never knew, and will never know...Most of the younger generation ( and I must say women in particular ) were the most outraged.
I must admit I have a certain amount of impatience with younger generation women. And there's undoubtedly more than a little resentment mixed in with that as well. I see them (and I'm over-generalizing, I know, so bear with me) as having grown up in the age of "entitlement" - with the idea that just because they're "qualified", they should get any job they apply for - and woe to the employer who hires the man instead! But I also feel sorry for them, in a way, because they make everything so hard on themselves - because they take everything so personally and so seriously! For example, they see their male supervisors as cold or crabby, and don't understand why I get along with them. To me, it's obvious - I "accept" the men as "men". I don't expect them to be non-sexual robots. So I let them "relax" around me, and I relax around them - and then we get the work done, and have fun at the same time. Around the younger women, everyone's on their guard so as not to say the "wrong thing". And everything becomes serious and professional - and the men think the women are bitchy and the women think the men are crabby.

I don't agree with everything Dirk has said about women, but I also understand that he's not a "woman-hater". He's just not "PC" - and I applaud that. Frankly, I'm so sick of that atmosphere of watching what you say and to whom you say it. And God save me from "sensitive" men! But again, I think that's the generational thing. Younger women seem to expect that men accept them as is, and if they don't, it's the man's problem. A woman can ogle a man's behind and that's okay. A man who stares at a woman's breasts is a jerk.

So call me old-fashioned - or maybe just tired. But as much as I enjoy the benefits of being a female today, I miss the days when I was treated like a *woman* and not just a person.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:46 AM   #93
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I have to disagree that the original BG is "iconic". Why? Well let's be honest. It doesn't match the status of shows like "M*A*S*H", "All In The Family", the "Star Wars" franchise of being known all over the world. Yes BG is known, but not on the same scale. I'd consider 1978's BG as more pop culture than iconic. Which isn't to say that for it's time it wasn't popular, because it was, and it has had a lasting impression on a generation of fans who really wanted and felt that it deserved a Tom DeSanto upgrade ( I did and still do ), but it only lasted one season. It was the show of my childhood and brought alot of fun memories and I would love to see the original actors back for a feature film ( a la Star Trek ), but my hopes are waning.
I respectfully disagree. I think it is "iconic". When I said "real" I meant real in the sense it was and is the genuine article and it was first. Battlestar Galactica is known world wide. There are fan sites in Germany and other countries. I've taken a look at a lot of the fan sites. I belong to more than one fan site of Battlestar Galactica and there are fans of all age groups. I'm not the only person who thinks this. Dirk's character of Starbuck is well loved and by millions of fans. And it's still popular. More and more fans have come to know it through re-runs, the NBC site and the DVD boxed set. It did last only for one season. But, it was a season of real quality. I'd rather have a show of real quality than quantity any day.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:52 AM   #94
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I think it is "iconic".
Jumping into the fray here I would have to say I agree with those who don't see the show as an icon. An icon is something that is so well known that people know what you're talking about as soon as you mention it - Star Trek, for example. Something that made such a huge impact that you don't have to explain what it was. BSG is really a "cult classic", in that it has a great many fans and followers, but outside of that group (however large) it is generally not well known. Heads of state as well as the kid on the street would recognize Star Trek - they may not have even heard of Battlestar.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:01 AM   #95
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Jumping into the fray here I would have to say I agree with those who don't see the show as an icon. An icon is something that is so well known that people know what you're talking about as soon as you mention it - Star Trek, for example. Something that made such a huge impact that you don't have to explain what it was. BSG is really a "cult classic", in that it has a great many fans and followers, but outside of that group (however large) it is generally not well known. Heads of state as well as the kid on the street would recognize Star Trek - they may not have even heard of Battlestar.
There are many, many of the fans of BSG that would disagree. It's got it's 30th anniversary coming up and is still known. Now that's something!
You know if everyone agreed on the same thing, the world would be pretty boring indeed.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:09 AM   #96
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Jumping into the fray here I would have to say I agree with those who don't see the show as an icon. An icon is something that is so well known that people know what you're talking about as soon as you mention it - Star Trek, for example. Something that made such a huge impact that you don't have to explain what it was. BSG is really a "cult classic", in that it has a great many fans and followers, but outside of that group (however large) it is generally not well known. Heads of state as well as the kid on the street would recognize Star Trek - they may not have even heard of Battlestar.
"Cult classic" now that's the phrase I was looking for I agree.

I think if BG had of gone the way of Star Trek, been made into a feature film with the original cast as a springboard for perhaps spinoffs etc, that it could *possibly* made "icon" status. But that didn't happen. It's like it was "interrupted" by a different vision, a different direction ( with switched gender characters ). I think if they had of made Spock a woman in the Star Trek: Motion Picture, the outcome for the franchise would have been very different. Or perhaps not. Who knows. We'll never know. But the motion picture worked for ST and since, of course, the ST universe got a whole lot bigger and people were offered a Whitman's sampler of different ideas under the ST umbrella. But they stayed true to the original characters, and introduced a new generation to ST:TNG. Both generations were happy
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:17 AM   #97
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There are many, many of the fans of BSG that would disagree. It's got it's 30th anniversary coming up and is still known. Now that's something!
You know if everyone agreed on the same thing, the world would be pretty boring indeed.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that original BG still has quite the following 30 years later ( Hell..I'm one of 'em! ), but I still have to agree to disagree with you on the icon status. As much as I love original Battlestar, it hasn't garnered the same attention as other scifi franchises. However, I think it *could* have if Tom DeSanto had of had the opportunity to continue with the original cast/themes.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:39 AM   #98
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I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that original BG still has quite the following 30 years later ( Hell..I'm one of 'em! ), but I still have to agree to disagree with you on the icon status. As much as I love original Battlestar, it hasn't garnered the same attention as other scifi franchises. However, I think it *could* have if Tom DeSanto had of had the opportunity to continue with the original cast/themes.
Good points. I also think it depends on what each of us thinks of as a definition of iconic and what each of us perceives as iconic. I also agree it's a "cult classic" too. I think we can all agree it does have quite the following 30 years later.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:49 AM   #99
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I'd love to see classic BSG get a makeover with some new effects like Star Trek is. Not that they don't hold up but we all know that because of the shooting schedule so many of the same shots had to be used and used again from episode to episode. I think that might help draw a new crowd in to the old series.
I'd love to see that too.
I read this in an article that was written in June of 2007.
Glen A. Larson, the original creator of the 1970's series Battlestar Galactica, has won his battle with Universal over intellectual property rights to the BSG franchise. Now, it's up to him to decide if the series has a future on the big screen, or even with direct-to-DVD films. Larson has retained all motion picture rights to both the franchise and the name. Larson has, however, expressed an interest in revitalizing the original series with a theatrical-release movie picking up where the original story left off.
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:21 PM   #100
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As a 20-something, I'd like to say I saw BSG, as I was growing up and had not seen the show. I had only heard of BSG and knew that is was a HUGE thing with lots of dedicated fans which had made it a cult. A few years back, when I was in college, part of our course was about a particular genre; sci-fi. When BSG came up, my class of 18 year olds knew it as the classic, cult TV show but not really anything more. BTW, I live in South Wales where most of the youngsters are like how ostrella described above. I am glad to not be one of them. I guess that's why I have many friends who are older than myself.
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